Hi Guys, I've seen videos of what your tripple rig boats can do. Amazing. But I've only seen them pull from the dock. How many skiers have you pulled or seen pulled from the deep with one of these boats? Do you have a problem with them squashing in and taking each other out? What do you do to prevent that? Is that why dock starts are the done thing? Does doing a dock start make that much difference to the problem of compressing in? Thanks Greg
We regularly do 10-12 guys behind either a twin or triple for barefoot gangline on deepwater starts and 1-2 skis (depending on skier skill). At that point compressing together isn't really an issue unless the skiers don't know how to ski very well. Then we put those guys in the middle. The main reason for the dock start in show skiing is so the guys can take off with a girl on their shoulders to eliminate the need for dropped skis while building pyramids, and to make it look more impressive (even though it's actually pretty easy). When you start getting up to about 12 couples (12 guys, 12 girls), you can start having issues with the middle guys getting squished out if your skiers aren't aware of what's going on and actively holding their own line. The guys on the outside need to start with their skis pointer towards the outside before the rope gets tight, and hold an edge hard until there is enough boat speed to make control easier. One thing that helps a ton that you can do with set up, and doesn't affect the skiers is to use multiple leaders from the boat to the ropes. If you notice any of the bigger pulls that you have seen, they all have more than one line coming off the back of the boat. This makes the point where skiers ropes attach to the leader wider than just a single point. Depending on the length and number of leaders, it can make the attach point of the ropes as much as 15 feet apart, making the pull to the middle significantly less on the outer skiers. Our team typically uses multiple leaders for anything over 6 skiers (couples or singles). The only exception we have to this is when doing a 5 tier pyramid, or a double top four tier pyramid. For that we keep everybody on the same leader (usually doubled up since there are so many people on it) to help keep everything together.
Thanks Riverrat I wasn't quite sure if you meant you have pulled 24 skiers side by side from the deep. Is this the most you've done or know of? How far back from the boat were they? These leaders sound really interesting, especially being able to pull the ropes 15 feet apart with them. I don't quite understand how that works though as the boat is only about 6 foot wide. Would you please explain more (photo would be great or more words) or PM me a phone number and details your timezone and times I can call? Thanks again Greg
We don't typically pull very many from deep starts. Usually just the 10-12 for the gang line. From dock starts, we have pulled 36 people (18 couples) with triple 175's. There are teams that have done quite a bit more (at least 48). The leaders are just heavy duty ropes or tow straps. They range in lenght from about 10 feet to about 40+ feet long depending on the number of skiers you have. The extra length also helps to keep all the skiers inside the wake for a smoother and flatter pyramid base. The leaders are still attached at the same point at the boat, but due to them being seperate, the one on the left is pulled left, the one in the middle is straight back, and the one at the right is pulled to the right. This makes the point where the skiers ropes (about 75 feet long) get attached spread apart due to the angle of the leaders. This makes the relative angle of the skiers rope much less, causing less pull to the center. The easiest way to see it is to just try it for yourself. you can even see the results with only two people. start with both people on the same leader, and see how far outside the wake you can cut out easily (both going to opposite sides), then put each one on a seperate leader of the same lenght and try again. I can't find any pictures right now, but I'm sure someone will chime in soon with some.
Thanks Riverrat, I see what you mean now A couple more questions. Does having a leader decrease the compression any more than just having the same total length in seperate ropes. i.e if the skiers is 100ft behind the boat, does the leader system help spead them any better than seperate ropes that put them 100ft behind? Can you please provide an example of how you select how long the leader has to be. For example, when pulling 12 footers, how long a leader do you really need to have? I'm looking for an example of the most skiers side by side with the minimum rope length tested in practice. For example, can you pull 24 skiers out (each skier on their own set of doubles) 80 ft behind the boat? The more skiers in the example, the better it is for my calculations. Thanks again Greg
Greg, When we pull 12 or 15 wide in a 24 or 30 person pyramid, we are 145 total feet behind the boat. For barefoot lines I think we are about 110 feet back in total as those guys are in and outside of the wake. You can use whatever length mainline/leaders you want, most clubs use mainlines between 75 and 90 ft.
I guess a single rope of 100 feet would give you slightly better results than a 75 foot rope with a 25 foot leader, but most clubs have set length ropes that match well with each other, then add on as much leader is necessary to keep everybody inside the wake. This also minimizes the amount of rope that the club needs to buy, and the size of the coil of rope in each of the skiers hands.
Hi All I need to make up some leader ropes and was wondering what size rope to use. I was thinking of buying a roll of 12mm nylon but I don't know if that is overkill, ideal or whatever. I want to make my leaders about 30-40 foot long and each will have about 5-6 skiers off it. If necessary I can cut that back to 4 skiers by using more leaders/attachment points. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks Greg
I believe we use 1/2" (12 mm) braided poly E (low stretch) rope for most of our leaders. One of these is typically enough for up to 6 couples. We do have some thicker (around 1") rope that I believe is a bit stretchier that we use for larger groups.
We get all of our leader stock from ropeinc.com on recommendation from Badgerland. We are using some 9/16" stock that is very supple and I know they have pulled a 5 high with one trunk. (21 people)
