1963? Hydrodyne custome deluxe 1700 restoration thread

I think that the link that Jim posted should solve any issues with parts for a Volvo. It now becomes a choice between modern Mercuiser power vs Volvo - and the budget. Brian restored a 27 ft twin engine boat for around 15K and I think he can do the same budget concioness job on his Dyne if he sticks withe the Volvo. I would repower with the Merc option but if I was on a limited budget I would do what I can with what I have.

 

TJ, it is not so much the $$ for the rebuild of the engine (he now has a 3L in the shed and is considering another volvo to be purchased down the road from him) but the sourcing of the usual expendable/maintenance parts that can not be found for volvo, and are easily found in the mercruiser circles. Try and find a lower unit impeller pump, or a prop (after the hub has been spun), exhaust manifold, or the exhaust bellows for the lower unit. These are readily available and cheap after market parts for the mercruiser line-up but become "unicorns" for volvo A110 and are very expensive when.... and if.... found.

If the Hydrodyne build is for kids/teens to be behind the helm and to keep them out of Dad's 27' twin (.... as kids, we beat the crap out of the stuff we were given access to back in the day), the out-sourced volvo parts will be and expensive to maintain and almost impossible to find (boat will sit for extended periods of time looking for correct volvo parts). It could take the boat out of service for a season or two if volvo. If a mercruiser were transplanted, could be back on the water the same weekend. Really depends on 1). intended purpose, and, 2) parts availabilaty, and maybe the priority is not in this order.

Not sure on the constraints of the engine space given but a pre 90's in-line 6 cyl 165 mercruiser would be a nice engine fore this size hull. They provide a good weight to power ratio, have a low profile exhaust riser that would not conflict verticle height issues associated with the engine cover clearance.

KevinB

 

If you read back through the thread, you can find where I asked him about bellows and water pump parts and I think he said that those parts were interchangeable with later Volvos and are available. The prop hubs could be a problem, but I think he can find a machine shop that could rebuild the prop hubs, and have several on hand.

I have been opposed to Volvos in the past because by and large they belonged to people that were not knowledgeable. I think he can handle this project with our help. He already has two complete drives and eventually will have a running one and a spare running one. I have always taken the position that I will help members with their projects, but not argue with them. If he decides to convert, I will help him with that.

By the way, I love to work on old multi carb setups. I have owned a bunch of them over the years and they are fun. Even SU's.

I have a Redwing boat here that was built in 1904. We believe it is the only one in existence (there are a few engines around). There are no parts for it. I have kept it running for 30 years now. I also have a 1949 4 cylinder opposed Evinrude Big Four 50 HP outboard. Pistons are N/A. Some were made a few years ago and I have been offered a set. I am just getting too old to do it. I have a very rare boat for it too. The Evinrude is the prettiest outboard I have ever seen.

There are not many spares around for the old Volvo drive, but when a drive comes up for sale they are cheap.

My kids never tore up anything. I let them operate some pretty fancy stuff including a 454 Corvette which in conversations years later they told me that they drove it very easy out of respect. They knew that if they wanted to continue to use my stuff, they better take care of it.

jim

 

Wow, I feel like I should have some input into this discussion! LOL, not taking it too serious, don't worry. I really do appreciate the input on both sides, it makes me think about things that I otherwise might have missed. Or viewpoints that I just did not consider. OK, so lets break this down into parts.

The original set up:
The B18 motor is not really a concern right now. I still need to open both of them up and see what the blocks look like. These are still popular engines, you can buy a complete race motor if you want. Of course, I do not want to spend that cash, but lets see what the cylinders of these two look like before much thought is put into it. Marine specific parts to the engine may be a concern. The water pump is on the motor and pulls from the exhuast pickup, nothing to do with the drive. I believe the parts are still available, if not an external pump could be used. Not ideal, but I think the pump is the easy part. The water cooled exhaust manifold is another concern. Again, I have two. let me pull them, inspect them and even pressure test them. If they are both good, odds are I will not need another one given that these two have lasted over a combined 100 years! Fuel pump needs to be looked at, but it is super cheap to put an electric fuel pump in the proper pressure range on this thing. Other than that, I think everything is available.

Beyond the motor, things get specific. The Rzeppa coupler is probably the short coming of the whole setup. I have one perfect one that is over 50 years old. How much longer will it last? Maybe 50 more. I have a spare that has some rust damage. Might be able to save it, might be able to repair my other one with it. Might find another down the road. The prop is an interesting one. It is a straight bore with a steel pin through the prop shaft. Not sure you can get those anymore and I only have one. But I do have a mill and lathe, an adapter would not be the hardest thing to make. I will have to look into that and see what is available. There is no water pump in the drive. There is an oil pump, but I now have two complete drives that both shift and engage as needed. So really only the Rzeppa coupler is the weak link. These drives really had good service, supposed to be dang hard to break. Read up on some of the testing they did on them, kind of scary. And with only 110 HP in front of it on a light boat, shouldn't be too bad.

The mercruiser option would be nice, but I really think I am opening a can of worms with that one also. I looked at that other dyne with the 3.0 in it and it is different. Never noticed it before, but it might have been a straight 6 hydrodyne. The scoop is completely different with the bulge being on the port side of the scoop, mine is oposite. So I need to find a mercruiser that is smaller than the 2.5L or 3.0L package. Yes they are out there, but once again I am into something rare at that point. The 2.5L and up is everywhere, but a power plant smaller than the 2.5L is just not done anymore. The 70's era volvo would be the best option at that point, but it is different than the aq110 or aq200 drive. I found two of them in a matter of 2 months, who knows, over the next few years I might be able to find another one or two. And at $500 or less for the whole package, that would work. The AQ110 later version and AQ200 is basically the same drive, but the Rzeppa joint was replaced with a universal joint that is serviceable. so that is an option while still maintaining the original drive layout.

Again, all good points. This boat is a backup fun lake cruiser to use and work on. The big formula is for big lake fun and tubing. We do not ski right now. But the formula would be a fine knee board or skiing boat as long as you do not mind the wake of a 7,000 pound running weight boat! If it breaks, it breaks. yanking the motor and drive out and reworking it for something else is still easier than what we are doing now.

Thanks all, this should be fun.

 

So I travelled and picked up the other package. Got there, looked fine. Drive looks decent, but the prop was bent up. So I left that. The Rzeppa drive had water get on it and parts of it started to rust. soaking it in oil now, need to look at it further. Parts may be good, may only work as a spare, no idea. The ball bearing in the back of the flywheel housing also had rust, but that is replaceable. Everything else was there. It was a 1962, one year older than mine. Same setup, same numbers cast on the block, serial number was in the 3,000 range where my 63 is in the 6,000 range. The other engine had also had the generator converted over to a newer style alternator, looks like a standard GM delco unit. That will be easier, removes some of the junk from the front of the motor. Oil cooler is there and nice condition.

Today we will start to remove the heads and see what the blocks look like.

As mentioned above, both drives look fine. If they lasted that long, might be just fine.

 

Exhaust off the front--unusual. There are marine alternators available. I would imagine that you could pull the starter apart and see the mods for marine use and modify a car starter if necessary. You have a machine shop, that is cool. I checked the carb numbers you posted and they are marine units basically marine carbs float bowls are vented into the throat and not outside. They have better shaft seals on the holleys.

It would be nice to have some props.

jim

 

usually the difference between the marine and car alternator or starter is the spark arresting screen due to being operated in an enclosed environment. It has to have a certain SAE stamped rating, which I forget which one it is. yeah, the carbs are mainly different on what happens to excessive fuel from a float failure. Boats it has to go into the engine instead of outside and draining into the bilge.

Pulling both heads off now to see if one of them is fixable without being bored.

 

There are impellers, props, and a starter on e-bay.

 

Hey Brian:

Jim and I have had some dialog with PMs behind the forum. Not trying to bias your build. Its all about keeping or geting these hulls back on the water on the water for the next generation(s) which is way cool IMO. If you go with the original power plant, it should serve the hull well.

KevinB

 

Couple weeks have gone by, time for an update:

So I have got some glass supplies in, started sanding the inside of the boat out some, reinforced the seat base section and painted a few parts. Will cover all that later, as I started to dig into the motors and I am happy and sad.....

first off, to recap, I drove up to grand rapids and picked up the motor to outdrive package for $250. prop was bad, but figured it was a good deal regardless of what shape the motor is in. tore the motor down and it came apart fine. Water had gotton into the flywheel cover so the flywheel and torque plate is a bit rusty. usable, but the originals are in way better shape, so no big deal there. When I turned the motor over, it spun easy but some water came out of the water pump housing. First oh-oh! Then I removed the exhaust manifold and noticed a freeze plug missing - not good. Still no idea if the block or head is cracked, digging into it. Drained the oil and there really wasn't any, but about a quart of oil/water came out of the pan. Hmm.....

Removed a head and it looks like water entered in through an intake valve. Not good, cyclinder #3 was pretty rusty. Might clean up, might not but I do not know if I will use this block. So then I pulled the pistons out to see what I have.
In the below pic, you can see the patch that is on the oil cooler, so I am guessing it popped from freezing and is bad. Good thing is I needed that little 90 degree tube for the original motor, it was missing. I can not see any cracks from the freeze plug, no rust stains on the inside. Still stripping it down, so I will keep looking.
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