Help understanding my tilt system.

Discussion in 'Hydrodyne® Boats' started by LeeThomas, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. LeeThomas

    LeeThomas Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Boat Model and Year:
    1967 Hydrodyne Hot Shot (?)
    Hi guys, so... going along with the oddities of my "big-foot" boat. (hmmm, that might be a fitting name!

    So, now that the motor is running like a top and I have "some" electrical items such as the lights working correctly, My sight is on the tilt feature. I think the wiring is all messed up as one of the large wires off the pump is literally running straight to the pump. My question (for now) is about the pistons on the outdrive. I only have one hose on the piston. It can't be a "float down" piston because there's not a hydraulic valve to release the pressure, it's done by an electric motor. The motor appears to be reversible, so if my thought is correct, the pump pushes fluid in to raise, but sucks it out to lower? With only one hose on each piston, and using an electric motor, it must be done this way, right?

    Secondly.... If anyone knows how this relay should be wired, please let me know. It's not like most relays on the newer systems. Yes, the wire with the bolt is directly bolted to the pump motor bypassing the relay. (not my work) But this relay should need the main power feed, two main outputs for the motor, and the up/down pair of wires coming from the switch to feed 12v+ for up and down. (and maybe a chassis ground for the relay.

    In the relay photo, the left main lug has the 12v+ going forward to the switch and a jumper wire heading to the main 12v+ starter lug as a power feed. The RT main relay lug has the blue feed wire going to the pump motor. The main green wire from the pump is bolted to the switch wire harness (green wire from the switch is down, and blue is up) On the small "switching lugs" you have the blue wire on the left which is "up" from the switch and on the RT is the main pump ground and a jumper wire going to the 12v- on the battery.

    I just see no way how this would work properly like this. Right now, I have a noise when the up position is tried, but none for down. Maybe the relay is doing weird things, but I know that the green wire off the switch was never designed to bypass the relay. The pump motor "might be" stuck too, but I know the 12v+ at the switch is good. My next step is to bypass the relay and try the pump without the relay, but any insight would be VERY helpful!
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  2. 2MERCS

    2MERCS Administrator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Eastvale, Ca
    Boat Model and Year:
    1973 Hydrodyne 18 w/Twin 1150 Mercs
    Do you have a picture of the pump?

    Dan
     
  3. LeeThomas

    LeeThomas Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Boat Model and Year:
    1967 Hydrodyne Hot Shot (?)
    Here are a couple of photos. I pulled the pump out of the boat the other day and started to diagnose it. I pulled the electric motor off the pump (quite odd as the electric motor is the part that houses the fluid reservoir) and I was able to get the electric part to work. It does indeed spin one direction when the ground is left on 12v- and you power one of the other wires, and then when you switch to the other wire, it reverses. SO this pump does reverse direction to pull the fluid back out.

    Onto the pump... it was nasty, like slightly wet old grease.... (not ATF by any means!) I did the best I could by cleaning the inside out in my parts washer, but it did not help. I did not attempt to remove the pin clips in the photo and pull the lower end apart at this time because I did not know what would happen and had hopes that someone might be able to rebuild it. That turned to be a failure as half a dozen shops all but laughed at my attempts.

    Fast forward to Thursday, I was looking at e-bay while my students were out of the shop and I actually found one! It hurt, it hurt badly.... but I shelled out over $300 for a 50+-year-old pump which was sold as "tested-working" I would still like to dig into my old one and get it working as these are pretty rare.

    Oddly enough, my concerns about the way mine were wired is even more confusing as the new pump has two relays, but one looks added on. There is no way my relay can reverse the motor either by flipping two wires, much less so by powering two pairs of wires using two different inputs. However, it is easy to wire with dual relays (just like the newer pumps do it)

    What's left? I am not positive exactly how much fluid the pump should take, but the cap is vented and will just blow out the extra. I am really hoping that I can find new hoses for the sterndrive as they are pretty bad. I do plan to pull the sterndrive this winter to replace the bellows and shift boot. (Any help for sourcing them for an original MerCruiser 120 sterndrive? Are the same as the newer ones?

    Other news? I have taken and passed the required 8-hour safe-boating course required for a boating license in CT and have my boating license. And the boat is scheduled to be registered on October 6th. The results of looking in vain for pretty much any exact information on this exact boat has named the boat... Although my wife is not loving it, how can you argue with "Sasquatch"


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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020 at 3:11 PM
  4. 2MERCS

    2MERCS Administrator

    Joined:
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    792
    Location:
    Eastvale, Ca
    Boat Model and Year:
    1973 Hydrodyne 18 w/Twin 1150 Mercs
    That’s an interesting design, most mercury trim setups are a dual hose design. I would imagine what happened in your boat past was the second relay was removed at some point. There should be a manual release knob or something like that somewhere in the pump. It probably would power tilt up and need to be manually released to get back down. (That manual valve if left open will allow the outdrive to kick up in reverse)

    Daniel
     
  5. jim

    jim Hydrodyne 18 Specialist

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
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    Location:
    FL
    Boat Model and Year:
    77 Dyne 18 I/O converted to Outboard
    Any good hydraulic repair shop should be able to make new hoses. I would be tempted to convert it to a more modern set up.
     
    LeeThomas likes this.
  6. LeeThomas

    LeeThomas Hydrodyner

    Joined:
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    10
    Boat Model and Year:
    1967 Hydrodyne Hot Shot (?)

    We will see... for now it will say the same after spending $300 on a new pump! I am not exactly sure how easy it would be to run the second line through the sterndrive or if i even have room to do so.
     
  7. LeeThomas

    LeeThomas Hydrodyner

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Boat Model and Year:
    1967 Hydrodyne Hot Shot (?)
    I agree, it had to have a second relay, but there are no holes where it would have been.

    There's also no manual valve, it has a 2-position switch for up/down and its just the pump reversing direction to pull the fluid back into the pump. Very strange, but it seems as it was only on the 67-69 sterndrives and I assume when the updated the sterndrive, the 2-hose became the norm.
     
  8. 2MERCS

    2MERCS Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Eastvale, Ca
    Boat Model and Year:
    1973 Hydrodyne 18 w/Twin 1150 Mercs
    So you say the pump motor actually goes forward and reverse with that single solenoid right now? Strange.

    Daniel
     

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